FOX23 wants to know if you think HB 1804 is working as it was intended?  Leave  us your comment and we might use it on FOX23 news a 5pm!

When you pass a bill you have to leave provisions for it to be enforced. This is not the case with HB 1804 and most people choose to ignore it. It is making it harder for honest Americans to comply with the law while it's a just a minor stumbling block for illegals who are already use to circumventing the law, to avoid it.

What is the definition of "working"?  Was it passed to protect Oklahoma citizens of an invasion of "undocumented alliens" (using the term illigal aliens goes against US law - inocent until proven guilty) or to harass Hispanics by creating  a law that allows racial profiling.  This is a very complex issue that has been barnstormed through the State House and Senate by the so called representatives of our citizens based on some facts that best support their political stance or sometimes called re-election. 

In any case, the Federal Government including Oklahoma representatives, is the entity responsible for immigration matters. What is the motivation for Oklahomans to support HD 1804, when southern Mexico border states do not have such type of legislation?

I do not agree on breaking the law, but the Federal Government did not establish a system to allow "non-degreed" south of the border workers to make it through the visa application process. They would respect the US laws (be realistic, not 100% - US citizens dont do that), pay taxes, and meet the labor needs of each state with laws promoting business growth. Also, is trying to force out of Oklahoma or even in the entrie US those immigrants that have established their families and been productive contibutors of our society over the past 10 to 20 years the humanitarian or Christian solution? Do we actually believe that the 12 million plus undocumented aliens with US citizen children have been a detriment to our society or economy? I suppose the current economic crisis in the US is also being blaemed on the "undocumented aliens".

Working? Ask every Oklahoma business (corporation or small owner) if this law has had positive results.  I suppose the results of the law will not be seen by our "well informed US citizens" until we have to pay higher prices for our goods and services caused by a shortage of workers that are no longer available to fill the jobs that "our legal worker" will not do and will only take if they are payed at levels beyond normal standards.  

Wake up Oklahoma, we are in a Global Economy and need dependable affordable labor to compete with the Chinese and other Far East markets.  Why not unite with our southern border neighbors to keep the Americas a strong economic region? 

The downfall of all societies is strife and lack of unity from within, it was not due to invaders.  

Hope others have similar views.

John72

 

John72:

or to harass Hispanics by creating  a law that allows racial profiling. 

This is a bogus statement brought on by the ACLU and other "supremacist groups". Hispanics are the largest group as it is easiest for them to cross the cross border.
Vietnamese, Afganastanians, Chinese, Hindu's, and other peoples wanting to come here could say , "Hispanics have an unfair advantage of getting into the U.S. due to the fact they do not have a large body of water to cross". So it's not racial but a matter of geography.

John72:

Wake up Oklahoma, we are in a Global Economy and need dependable affordable labor to compete with the Chinese and other Far East markets. Why not unite with our southern border neighbors to keep the Americas a strong economic region?.

Again, this is a false statement. The U.S. is spending Billions of dollars on both sides of the border to make a strong economy. We spend over 5 billion in Mexico to support there welfare, not to mention the Billions of dollars we spending on misplaced immigrants on our side. We give them aide, rebuild there ports, jobs have went across the border, etc. If we have a large group of 'misplaced immigrants' working here and not paying taxes, just were does that money come from?

What about other nations that want to come here, don't they consider it unfair that we would allow such an unfair advantage to our neighbors south of the border than them?
Can't other nations say "Aren't we being discriminated against because WERE the minority"?

It's not racial, there upset because there the majority breaking our laws, go to there country and try it sometime.

kindagreywolf:

We can spend a lot of time going back and forth on this complex immigration issue promoting our views and still not agree until "we check out the facts" being presented in the news media.  There is a tendency to present controversial issues to the public not to try to find a solution for a community, but to create sensationalism to improve ratings.  If we were to review the various investigative reports on TV or newspaper dealing with the immigration issue over the last 2 years we would discover that that facts are one sided or even partial to stir up emotions to "string up the illegals",

As I mentioned previously the Federal Government is the one responsible for developing and implementing immigration laws that best benefit the US.  These laws should cover all foreigners wanting to migrate to the US.  As agreed by both anti and for immigrants, the US was built on immigration. Sure there were "legal" processes over the last 100 years, but there has been a great number of immigrants from all countries that have found a way to enter the US to better their lives.  The Hispanic immigrants are not the largest group of immigrants that have entered the US, we have just been sharing a border with Mexico from the times of the colonization by Spain over 400 years.  The Hispanics have been identified as the fasted growing ethnic group in the last 25 to 30 years.  Sure there are others like the Chinese, Vietnamese, Middle Easterners, Europeans, Russians, and other groups that want to immigrate to the US.  Geography has been an obstacle, but it has not stopped them. San Francisco and Seatlte have the largest growing immigrants from China. What about Hawaii, they are the stepping stone to the US west coast.

Over the years the Federal Government, lead by Congress (our so called representatives) have looked away to the real problem, fair immigration processes for those foreigners that are "working class" (non-degreed or professionals) to enter the US legally and be a part of the US population that are law abiding and tax paying citizens.  I do not claim that every immigrant will do this because our US prison population has a much larger number and percentage of "Americans". I do not have the facts, but if we did look into these facts we would find that Hispanics or other foreign ethnic groups do not surpace the Caucasian, African American, or Native American populations.   

Finally, you say that HD 1804 has not created a profiling of Hispanics, just go ask Native Americans, Indians, or Middle Easterners you encounter in Tulsa, Owasso, BA, Jenks, Bixby, or other Oklahoma communities if they have been stopped on the street or while driving by a law enforcement representative over the last year to show their ID even though they were minding their business and obeying the law.  I have been personally informed of these events occurring on the streets by victims of this harassment. Maybe you can discover the truth by putting on make-up and clothing to make you look like a "working class" Hispanic, and drive a used vehicle around the streets of Tulsa for a week.

I am a US born Caucasian with US and South American heritage that grew up in South America.  So you may say I am bi-cultural and know how it is to live in a 3rd world country and the US. Hispanics have the same desires, dreams, and values that we so called US born citizens have; they just have a different culture.  Sounds familiar?  Like New Yorkers and Okies.

I hope you have not taken my comments as attacking, they are just meant to show the basis of mine.  If the citizens of Oklahoma could get all the validated facts surrounding immigration in Oklahoma, we could inform our state representatives in order to pass productive and huminizing immigration laws.

kindagreywolf:

We can spend a lot of time going back and forth on this complex immigration issue promoting our views and still not agree until "we check out the facts" being presented in the news media.  There is a tendency to present controversial issues to the public not to try to find a solution for a community, but to create sensationalism to improve ratings.  If we were to review the various investigative reports on TV or newspaper dealing with the immigration issue over the last 2 years we would discover that that facts are one sided or even partial to stir up emmotions to "string up the illegals",

As I mentioned previously the Federal Government is the one responsible for developing and immplementing immigration laws that best benifit the US.  These laws should cover all foreigners wanting to migrate to the US.  As agreed by both anti and for immigrants, the US was built on immigration. Sure there were "legal" processes over the last 100 years, but there has been a great number of immigrants from all countries that have found a way to enter the US to better their lives.  The Hispanic immigrants are not the largest group of immigrants that have entered the US, we have just been sharing a border with mexico from the times of the colonization by Spain over 400 years.  The Hispanics have been identified as the fasted growing ethnic group in the last 25 to 30 years.  Sure there are others like the Chinese, Vietnamesse, Middle Easterns, Europeans, Russians, and other groups that want to immigrate to the US.  Geography has been an obstacle, but it has not stopped them. San Francisco and Seatle have the largest growing immigrants from China. What about Hawai, they are the stepping stone to the US west coast.

Over the years the Federal Government, lead by Congress (our so called representatives) have looked away to the real problem, fair immigration processes for those foreigners that are "working class" (non-degreed or professionals) to enter the US legally and be a part of the US population that are law abiding and tax paying citizens.  I do not claim that every immigrant will do this because our US prison population has a much larger number and percentage of "Americans". I do not have the facts, but if we did look into these facts we would find that Hispanics or other foreign ethnic groups do not surpace the caucasian, african american, or native american populations.   

Finally, you say that HD 1804 has not created a profiling of Hispanics, just go ask native Americans, Indians, or Middleasterners you encounter in Tulsa, Owasso, BA, Jenks, Bixby, or other Oklahoma communities if they have been stopped on the street or while driving by law inforcement representative over the last year to show their ID eventhough they were minding their business and obeying the law.  I have been personally informed of these events occuring on the streets by victims of this harassment. Maybe you can discover the truth by putting on make-up and clothing to make you look like a "working class" Hispanic, and drive a used vehicle around the streets of Tulsa for a week.

I am a US born caucasian with US and South American heritage that grew up in South America.  So you may say I am bi-cultural and know how it is to live in a 3rd world country and the US. Hispanics have the same desires, dreams, and values that we so called US born citizens have, they just have a different culture.  Sounds familiar?  Like New Yorkers and Okies.

kindagreywolf:

We can spend a lot of time going back and forth on this complex immigration issue promoting our views and still not agree until "we check out the facts" being presented in the news media.  There is a tendency to present controversial issues to the public not to try to find a solution for a community, but to create sensationalism to improve ratings.  If we were to review the various investigative reports on TV or newspaper dealing with the immigration issue over the last 2 years we would discover that that facts are one sided or even partial to stir up emmotions to "string up the illegals",

As I mentioned previously the Federal Government is the one responsible for developing and immplementing immigration laws that best benifit the US.  These laws should cover all foreigners wanting to migrate to the US.  As agreed by both anti and for immigrants, the US was built on immigration. Sure there were "legal" processes over the last 100 years, but there has been a great number of immigrants from all countries that have found a way to enter the US to better their lives.  The Hispanic immigrants are not the largest group of immigrants that have entered the US, we have just been sharing a border with mexico from the times of the colonization by Spain over 400 years.  The Hispanics have been identified as the fasted growing ethnic group in the last 25 to 30 years.  Sure there are others like the Chinese, Vietnamesse, Middle Easterns, Europeans, Russians, and other groups that want to immigrate to the US.  Geography has been an obstacle, but it has not stopped them. San Francisco and Seatle have the largest growing immigrants from China. What about Hawai, they are the stepping stone to the US west coast.

Over the years the Federal Government, lead by Congress (our so called representatives) have looked away to the real problem, fair immigration processes for those foreigners that are "working class" (non-degreed or professionals) to enter the US legally and be a part of the US population that are law abiding and tax paying citizens.  I do not claim that every immigrant will do this because our US prison population has a much larger number and percentage of "Americans". I do not have the facts, but if we did look into these facts we would find that Hispanics or other foreign ethnic groups do not surpace the caucasian, african american, or native american populations.   

Finally, you say that HD 1804 has not created a profiling of Hispanics, just go ask native Americans, Indians, or Middleasterners you encounter in Tulsa, Owasso, BA, Jenks, Bixby, or other Oklahoma communities if they have been stopped on the street or while driving by law inforcement representative over the last year to show their ID eventhough they were minding their business and obeying the law.  I have been personally informed of these events occuring on the streets by victims of this harassment. Maybe you can discover the truth by putting on make-up and clothing to make you look like a "working class" Hispanic, and drive a used vehicle around the streets of Tulsa for a week.

I am a US born caucasian with US and South American heritage that grew up in South America.  So you may say I am bi-cultural and know how it is to live in a 3rd world country and the US. Hispanics have the same desires, dreams, and values that we so called US born citizens have, they just have a different culture.  Sounds familiar?  Like New Yorkers and Okies.

Maybe this HD-1804 working question will prompt some business owners to share their opinions and experiences caused by the law. I am sure there is a great number of Oklahomans that think small businesses and restaurants only employ "undocumented aliens". Guess what happens when these are closed down for the lack of this labor resource. No sales or state taxes are generated and the other US citizens are unemployed and collecting benefits until they find another job.

I hope you have not taken my comments as attacking, they are just meant to show the basis of mine.  If the citizens of Oklahoma could get all the validated facts surrounding immigration in Oklahoma, we could inform our state representatives in order to pass productive and humanizing immigration laws.

John72   

  

 

kindagreywolf:

P.S. In trying to add the paragraph below, I duplicated the text o my reply.

"Maybe this HD-1804 working question will prompt some business owners to share their opinions and experiences caused by the law. I am sure there is a great number of Oklahomans that think small businesses and restaurants only employ "undocumented aliens". Guess what happens when these are closed down for the lack of this labor resource. No sales or state taxes are generated and the other US citizens are unemployed and collecting benefits until they find another job."

By the way, one (1) of the facts never mentioned in the immigration debates is that the US Immigration quota for "all" immigrants with no professional trade or degree is only 5,000.00 visas per year.  Do you think foreign working class labor migrants have a viable way to enter the US legally?

John72

 

Attack? naw, never thought that. This is one of those Hot topics and emotions run high. I do know that Koreans and Asian Indians that come here have to open a business. As Jung Jo use to say, "You don't own a dry cleaners, your are not Korean"!
Bill 1804 was passed by the state, not the Feds, so I don't think they care.

Not sure about 5,000 but I do know some Yakima, Wa. Businesses use a loop hole to legally hire Migrant farm workers and keep them here. We should talk to the Migrant farm workers as they don't want the illegal Hispanics here either. Just take some Tequila and have a sit down, those guys are a freaking trip!

We won't talk about the Tulsa P.D. as they make the KKK look like a boys choir.

I don't mind the illegals that want to come and work, I do mind the ones that want to trash the country and bring drugs in and drop babies like roaches.

Still, as far as taxes, when 1804 came to light, a lot of illegals said, "I am afraid to drive my kids to school because I don't have insurance and if I am caught, I will get deported". So there is more than one law that they break, besides not paying for our school use and if they get in an accident, were boned also. Were do all the tax dollars come to fix this?

Unfortunately with bill 1804, it leaves many "what ifs"

I agree with you 100% about the bad apples in the population of undocumented aliens that add to our existing drug, gangs, and other felony crimes.  As for the number of babies they have I don't think it is fair to imply they have a larger birth rate than the rest of the US population in the same economic condition.  What is the actual number and percentage of these criminals when compared to all the criminals that are "caught"? I am sure these figures would fall in line with the average of the entire population.

As for the "illegal's" receiving benefits from US citizens hard earned tax dollars, I am sure those that have opted to break the law and obtain fake SS numbers to get these benefits have done so until they are caught.  What is the number and percentage of this group when compared to the entire population of US citizen's committing similar fraud with insurance claims, unemployment benefits, etc.?  Again it is something to think about.

I do not have the facts, but I can tell you from first hand experience over the past 30 years living in Tulsa, the Hispanic families that are undocumented aliens I have had any contact are hard working and pay their bills with "cash" (rent, groceries, cars, gasoline, medical, etc.).  Every purchase made for goods and services have a sales tax and city tax that goes to portions of the Tulsa city budget (schools included). Also, property taxes paid by the landlords go to the same costs.  The "illegal's" are paying taxes indirectly and would pay the regular taxes if there was an immigration program for existing "illegal's" to get an ID number as part of the process to apply for residency (maybe a 3 year program).  This way the Federal and State governments could benefit from more tax dollars, drivers licenses could be issued, vehicle and home insurance could be purchased, the armed forces could have another source of recruits, and the this group could be "documented". Of course there needs to be a penalty for breaking the immigration law in the first place (entering illegally or staying after the entry visa expires), but it has to be reasonable and with payment plan, not the $10,000.00 per family member that was being proposed in some of the immigration reform discussed in Congress.

Again, I am just trying to bring to the attention of as many as I can reach with my small efforts is that we need to have all the facts about "undocumented aliens" to base our view that can be voiced to our State and US representatives. Since my background and experience is with Hispanic sector, I myself have to rely of the facts about all immigrants.

One final comment. I am sure there is a significant number of uninsured "illegals" on our Oklahoma roads, but they do not have a way to get a drivers license to pay for the insurance.  What is the excuse of the entire number of uninsured motorists that are US citizens?  I sure would like to see these facts in the media when reporting on this type of problem. I am sure a lot of views would change about trying to establish a program for these "illegal's" to apply for the license and only get them by passing the same testing that the rest of the Oklahoma residents have to pass. By the way, in Latin America every city has some type of mass transit at affordable prices, so I am sure a great number of the Hispanics driving on our roads had to learn here in the US out of necessity. Cars in their countries are a luxury and paid in full at the time of purchase for the most part.

  Hope our exchanges creates a need by those reading them to check out the "facts" before deciding on their stance, and maybe we can get more citizens to unite in getting our State and US representatives to overhaul the immigrations laws to address the "undocumented alien" population residing in the US, as well as those trying to apply for a visa.  Of course we also need to secure our borders for illegal immigration.

United we stand - devided we fall.

John72