Being a native american I decided to get on my soap box for this one. Just heard on the news about a prayer group getting together to pray for these people. Let me get this straight in my mind, they are going to pray for law breakers? When these people came to this country they knew they should register and didn't, they knew that they were breaking the law and now they want us to pray that they can continue to be legal crimanals? If they want to stay here then do the right thing quit crieing and feeling sorry for yourselves. What ever happened to America? Let's see, why not go back to the original immigrants.  David

David,

It is alot more difficult than you think.  It is not as simple as that.  Most of the illegals are here to provide for their families back home.  I have been to Mexico and I thought just as you are thinking.  The economy is so bad over that many of them leave their own families just to come here and work, they send money home so their kids and spouses can have what you and I take for granted.  My question is:  Why weren't we concerned about immigration 10 or 15 years ago, terrorism was alive and well then?  This new law sets up a racial profiling situation because they are targeting Hispanics, when people hear the words illegal alien, they automatically assume Mexicans and that is wrong.  Many americans don't stop and think, they just act.  If you go and visit the Immigration Office in Oklahoma City; you will see there are people from Africa, Europe, South America, Central America, and Middle Eastern Countries, but it seems like when you mention illegal alien people automatically think of Mexicans, there are over 43 Spanish speaking countries in the world today.  I do agree they should not take public assistance, or work without proper documentation and they need to pay taxes, but are you willing to do some of the jobs out there that they do?  Construction work consists of about 85% illegals because the companies cannot find legal workers hispanic or not.  Who will pick up the fruit and vegetables, I don't see any Americans lining up to do those jobs.  When produce prices go up (and I promise you they will) and when the housing and construction costs go up, everyone will ask..."What happened and why?"  Please don't take this personal, but before you pass judgement or criticize, do some research and ask questions.  There are alot of good decent illegals comming here, yes there are some that are bad, but for the most part, they just want to work.  By the way I am legal to be here, my wife and daughter are too.  I can see both sides of the story, others need to as well.

bjuanb:

 

It is alot more difficult than you think.  It is not as simple as that.  

Actually it's extremely simple, illegal immigrants are breaking the law.

I find it interesting in your post how your saying we are making it a  racial profile situation. No we are not, you folks are the one doing this.

You say why was it different 10-15 years ago? It's because of the amount of illegal immigrants entering our country in the past 5 years is about to bankrupt our society because of their abuse to our system.

Why is this so hard for you folks to understand? You have bleed us dry and that's all there is to it........it's just that simple!

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First of all, let me clue you in on something:  I am a citizen here, I was born and raised in Tulsa by Americans, I was adopted.  Second, my wife is a legal permanent resident, with legal documentation, she is legal to work and drive.  You need to educate yourself on the issues.  It is not hard for me to understand.  This is what I mean racial profiling.  You automatically assume I am illegal, my family is illegal by the little statement; "you folks"  you just categorized me and my family.  The system is not being bankrupt by just illegals, DO SOME RESEARCH, don't just listen to the media or a polotician.  Illegals have been crossing the borders form many years even before 9/11, nothingwas done.  The laws were in place before then, but not enforced until now, after all, elections are comming up.  You people are reading and believing what you want before looking at both sides.  Just because you are an American, you automatically assume the worsed in other races.  It is kinda strange because the Aztecs, Incas, Mayas, and the American Indians were here before any "Americans" were here.  When the Europeans came over, they forced the indians from there land onto "reservations", they went to Africa and purchased negro slaves because they were too lazy to do the work themselves, even Thomas Jefferson had a few slaves.  Then we brought over the Chinese to help build railroads and do other slave labor.  I bet you eat alot of fruits and vegetables, well, who picked them?  All the houses are built by an American contractor who hires illegals to help build them because he can't find anyone else to do the job.  If you read what I said, you would have known that I don not approve of them getting public assistance and they need to pay taxes just like everyone else.  It is so easy for you and others like you to say these things because you are legal, you have no idea what these people have went through in their own country, why would they risk everything to come here knowing that they are breaking the law.  There are illegals from different countries, not just Mexico, just because you speak spanish doesn't mean you are a Mexican.  Oh, one more thing, my wife was pulled over 3 times just this past week for no reason other than to check for her green card, each time, it came back clear.  There was no other reason for them to stop her, twice it was the same officer.  That is what I mean by racial profiling. 

BjuanB

Just because illegal immigrants have been crossing the border for years still does not make it right or legal. Shame on the government for taking so long to correct a huge and costly problem. As far as looking at both sides of the situation I really don’t need to do that. Illegal immigrants need to leave and apply for citizenship the correct way. I know that not all illegal immigrants are from Mexico but it is the easiest access to this country and it needs to be more secure. Mexico is a very corrupt and poorly ran country. But instead of fleeing the bad situation and risking life and limb to be here. There needs to be a change made in Mexican Government. How can that happen if everyone leaves the country?? Change is never Easy and some time it is a long process. But if you are coming to live here do it right and legally.

( not meaning you personally )

But if it is so horrendous there in Mexico, when are the people of that country going to make the change, and stop the corruption that has plagued that country for decades. I mean really, if you the millions Mexicans here in the USA and went back for just one presidential election, that is a major start to changing the government.

I like your response better than the other person, becuase you did not make it a personal attack.  Here's my consesus.  Yes, Mexco is a poorly ran country, the government is very corrupt.  I have been to Mexico City and some of the outlying areas and I must say the people there are more friendly and helpful than most here.  You can walk down a street and there are always people saying "good morning or hi, how are you?".  They are wanting to learn English and learn what it is like to live in the U.S.  Getting a passport or visa takes over $3,000., most of us make that in about a month and a half.  My mohter in law wanted to come visit us last year and she was required to get a lawyer, prove she owned her own home and had a certain amount of money in the bank.  She also had to prove she had family here and that she had reason to return to Mexico.  It cost her about $1500. to do that.  A passport for you and I costs about $100. and that's it.  I have a sister in law who was on maternity leave from her job there in Mexico City and she only made 1500 pesos for 2 weeks that's about $150 and some change per 2 weeks and $300 per month.  I went to an ATM and withdrew some money and she seen my receipt and said, "you have a lot of money!  I only had about $900 U.S. (9,026 pesos), I told her that it wasn't much at all.  Most of them that come here do so out of desperation, not just to break the law, they do it to support their family.  What you and I take for granted over here, ie: going out to eat at McDonalds', going to the movies, buying a new car or home, it is not that easy for them.  It seems easy to us because we are not in their place.  Most that come here do the jobs that you and I would not do, such as pick fruit and vegetables, work sun up to sun down (no 8 hour shifts).  I don't agree with them comming here, not paying taxes, taking from the system, causing problem legally, but the majority just want to come here and work.  I wish the roles could be reversed for about 1 week, then I think everyone would see things from both sides and come up with a solution that benefits the U.S. and Mexico.

bjuanb:

First of all, let me clue you in on something:  I am a citizen here, I was born and raised in Tulsa by Americans, I was adopted.  Second, my wife is a legal permanent resident, with legal documentation, she is legal to work and drive.  You need to educate yourself on the issues.  It is not hard for me to understand.  This is what I mean racial profiling.  You automatically assume I am illegal, my family is illegal by the little statement; "you folks"  you just categorized me and my family.  

My remark "You Folks" was directed to those of you trying to play the race card and you know it.

Thankfully your dribble to us "White Folks" is meaningless because we all know and have friends that are Hispanic and know that their thoughts are much different than yours.

As far as I'm concerned the matter of HB 1804 is closed. It's time for all of us to move on and for those that want to whine over it, go knock yourself........ because none of "Us Folks" care. The problem has been resolved and that's all there is to it.......it's just that simple!

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The matter is closed until others who have the same opinion as you have to pay a highter price for goods and services that were done by those illegal immigrants.  That includes the ones on OKC (government officials) becuase there is no one that will do those jobs.  Just so you know, I do support many of the things mentioned in HB 1804.  I did not agree with illegals protesting or doing marches.  It is easy for you and others like you to take one side and refuse to hear the other side because you and I have it easy.  Would you go through the same things that those illegals are going through just to provide for their families back home?  Would you leave everything you knew behind in search of a better way to provide for your family.  This has nothing to do with HB1804.  I don't agree with what the illegals are doing, but I understand why they are doing it.  If you would go, I'd pay for your plane ticket and take you to Mexico City or one of the smaller towns for about a month and maybe it would open your eyes to what and why they do come here.  You would then realize it is not as cut and dry as you think.  I used to think just like you and others like you until I seen for myself what was going on.  This has been a good debate with you and I will not disrespect you and your opinion by calling your statements "dribble", we just have a different way of looking at things

bjuanb:

  If you would go, I'd pay for your plane ticket and take you to Mexico City or one of the smaller towns for about a month and maybe it would open your eyes to what and why they do come here.  You would then realize it is not as cut and dry as you think.  I used to think just like you and others like you until I seen for myself what was going on.  This has been a good debate with you and I will not disrespect you and your opinion by calling your statements "dribble", we just have a different way of looking at things

The word "Dribble" was made in reference to you trying to twist something I had stated so you could make a point about racial issues, which doesn't exist by the way.

One of the things that bewilder me by what you have said and some others, is the lack of compassion or the understanding of compassion... by us American citizens.

Americans have to be the most compassionate people in the world. We are a mixture of all nations and cultures and understand very well what is going on in other countries. We also understand people wanting to make a better life for themselves and we offer it to those people that want to become a citizen here by becoming a legal citizen....... and again, it's just that simple.

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It’s nice to hear someone talk about compassion. It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree with this bill. There are specific social problems that will occur because of it. I am all about making sure anyone illegal has to become a citizen. However, I really feel for the kids who really aren’t at fault that mom and dad either brought them here or had them here. These are the ones who will be taken away from friends, schools and opportunity. It’s just a sad thing. I would hope people would understand that.  

What really hacks me off about this WHOLE thing are the Hispanic leaders (religious and otherwise) telling the state straight up “We don’t care about the law, we will harbor anyone because that is the teaching of Jesus Christ” Well if that is not using the “Lords” name in vein I don’t know what is. They need to be just as responsible for their actions as would a land lord. The other thing that has me terrified (and I posted on this before) is that they point blank said “Don’t trust law enforcement.” It just made it seem like it was ok to rise up against authority. Just makes it really scary. The picketing and protesting doesn’t bother me, as long as it is non violent. People have a right to stand up for what they believe in. People have a right to show unity. But the whole “uprising” undertone isn’t going to help this situation at all.

The next thing you know, we have Joe Blow Mullet Head wandering around with a rifle and a Confederate flag hunting down anyone he thinks is illegal because he feels justified. Meanwhile some Latino points a gun at a cop because father so and so said it was ok. This whole thing is sitting on the edge of a riot and it scares the hell out of me.

It scares me and my family too, and we are all legal to be here.  I am a U.S. citizen and my wife is a legal permanent resident.  I just have this strange feeling that something bad is going to happen.  We are on edge and, like I said:  I don't know why, but we are scared because there are some out there who don't care about the laws, it makes me very angry.  My wife says that they are hurting their cause and making it very difficult for the ones that are legall.  My daughter is 3 years old and she asked for none of this, but I fear for her as well as all the other children who have no say.

It is not as simple as you think.  Visit a Mexican national and ask them what steps they need to go through to get a visa or a passport.  Ask them what are the requirements and how much it costs for them to come here and work.  I too thought it was just that simple until I did a little research.  For you and me it would be easy, becuase money is easier to come by for us, but for them, it is not.  $3,000 to them might as well be $30,000 to some of them.

Tega:

It’s nice to hear someone talk about compassion. It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree with this bill. There are specific social problems that will occur because of it. I am all about making sure anyone illegal has to become a citizen. However, I really feel for the kids who really aren’t at fault that mom and dad either brought them here or had them here. These are the ones who will be taken away from friends, schools and opportunity. It’s just a sad thing. I would hope people would understand that.  

What really hacks me off about this WHOLE thing are the Hispanic leaders (religious and otherwise) telling the state straight up “We don’t care about the law, we will harbor anyone because that is the teaching of Jesus Christ” Well if that is not using the “Lords” name in vein I don’t know what is. They need to be just as responsible for their actions as would a land lord. The other thing that has me terrified (and I posted on this before) is that they point blank said “Don’t trust law enforcement.” It just made it seem like it was ok to rise up against authority. Just makes it really scary. The picketing and protesting doesn’t bother me, as long as it is non violent. People have a right to stand up for what they believe in. People have a right to show unity. But the whole “uprising” undertone isn’t going to help this situation at all.

The next thing you know, we have Joe Blow Mullet Head wandering around with a rifle and a Confederate flag hunting down anyone he thinks is illegal because he feels justified. Meanwhile some Latino points a gun at a cop because father so and so said it was ok. This whole thing is sitting on the edge of a riot and it scares the hell out of me.

Not only did you hit the nail on the head, you pounded it through the 2 X 4. Great post!

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bjuanb:

   For you and me it would be easy, becuase money is easier to come by for us, but for them, it is not.  $3,000 to them might as well be $30,000 to some of them.

That boat won't float either, all they have to do is get a Work Visa and make the money here.... then apply for citizenship.

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http://sportstoday.proboards58.com

It doesn't work like that, you have to apply for one and it takes about $1500 to do that.  You need a lawyer to do that.  You cannot apply for citizenship on a work visa, it is for work only.  The only way you can apply for citizenship is to: first get a work visa and to do that you must have an employer sponsor you for the visa.  The work visa is just that, a work visa.  You cannot apply for citizenship unless you have a permanent resident card (green card), then it is a 5 year minimum wait to apply for citizenship.  Your employer must sponsor you, the trouble is; finding an employer that will do it.  You need to do some research on the subjbect.  I did just that.  Go to the INS website and do the research.  We had to be married for 2 years to get a temporary green card, then my wife got her 10 year green card.  If you get married now and have your papers in process you must return to your home country for approximately a few years, then return.  I have been through all this before, I do know what I am talking about.  Most generally an employer will not go through the hassle of sponsorship.  It cost alot of money to do that.  That's why employers hire illegals, cheaper wages, they get no hassles from them and if the illegal gets caught, they can return under a new name with a new S.S.N.  also a new identity.  They don't have to pay unemployment compensation because the illegals will not apply for it becuase of fear of getting caught.  The employers turn a blind eye to the issues of illegals so they can keep their workforce up to the production levels they need.  It is a "don't ask, don't tell kinda thing."  I have seen this first hand, I know how the wheels turn.  This is a revolving door that the governemt refuses to close, the only reason they are attempting to do something about it now is:  What is next year?.......Oh yeah Elction time again.  It is Americas fault for the border situation because they will not commit to enforcing existing laws and secure the borders, not just the southern, but the northern one as well.  Again citizenship cannot be obtained through a work or student, you must become a permanent resident first.